Saturday, October 20, 2012

IS OBAMA THE ANTICHRIST?





With a seminar title like that, one is likely to draw a crowd - and it did.  The full title of the presentation was "Is Obama the Antichrist?  The Rise of American Fundamentalist Anti-Liberalism" by Dr. Matthew A. Sutton, Professor of History at Washington State University.  Sutton is spending the year at University College Dublin as a Fulbright Scholar, and a part of his duties is to give seminars around Europe.  He spoke at the Heidelberg Center for American Studies and was introduced by Dr. Jan Stievermann who is part of the collaborative efforts of the HCA with the Pepperdine program in Heidelberg.

Matt started the seminar by answering the question re Obama - "No."  He went on to add that he believes today's fundamentalists/evangelicals see Obama as a sign, or precursor to the soon-to-come antichrist.  Matt gave a very thorough and engaging summary of the rise of fundamentalism, from the publication of The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth to the changing nature of the relationship of fundamentalists with government.  Fundamentalists have always espoused a small government that does not interfere with their lives, and early on were very much committed to that principle, to the point of being considered un-American because of their lack of support for the First World War.  This changed by the time of the Second World War, and as they became more involved in both the political and cultural scenes, their zenith was the election of Ronald Reagan as President.  Reagan was a person who understood their theology, who apparently agreed with their world-view, and who certainly spoke their apocalyptic language, e.g. Russia being the evil empire.  Although they considered W their man in the White House, he did not live up to their expectations.  Naturally the election of Obama, who many fundamentalists believe is a foreign-born Muslim, signals another step toward the rapture, the end of the world battles, the Reign of Jesus, etc.  Paradoxically, they long for the return of Jesus but seem intent on crushing the very person who they believe is a sign of the coming tribulation.  Similarly, they are Zionists not because of their fondness of the Jews but because the re-gathering of the Jews in Israel fulfills the prophecies for the end times, in which of course they will all be slaughtered along with all other non-believers.

My perspective is that it is interesting to note that fundamentalists believe in small government for those outside the fold but want government on the side of those inside the fold.  They first were supportive of separation of church and state and now espouse basically a theocracy.  I asked Matt how the fundamentalists became anti-intellectual, anti-science and particularly anti-evolution, and his first response was that he did not really feel that they were anti-intellectual.  He said that over the decades, they had withdrawn from the public educational scene and became cloistered in their own educational system.  As Matt continued to develop his answer, he mentioned a colleague of his who was banished from the fundamentalist system because of his academic views on evangelicalism, and at that point Matt changed his answer to say that yes, they are anti-intellectual.  I later learned that his colleague is Randall Stephens who along with my friend Karl Giberson authored a book entitled "The Anointed - Evangelical Truth in a Secular Age."    I believe that this book and this unflattering assailing of fundamentalist in the New York Times [The Evangelical Rejection of Reason] are fundamental to the fact that they are both no longer affiliated with Eastern Nazarene College.

In case you are wondering how it is all going down:



21 comments:

Clif Hostetler said...

This post will serve as an interesting side reference for the current adult Sunday school class I'm co-leading. We are using the book, Fed Up with Fundamentalism by Leroy Seat.

Dr S said...

Thanks Clif. I believe that Matt is working on book about this subject, so that should be interesting. I will check out Fed Up as well - sound good.

Satan said...

I'm totally fed up with fundamentalism, too!

hoosierdaddy said...

Glad to see that you have checked in Satan - you've been AWOL for a while!

Bizzy Brain said...

I never thought of Obama as THE anti-Christ, but as a kinda anti-Christ Lite.

Dr S said...

Bizzy - that was one of the take-home points of the lecture. Evangelical fundamentalists do not believe that he is the anti-Christ but rather a type of John The Baptist prequel to the true anti-Christ.

S3 said...

Leroy Seat is just the guy I want to turn to for an honest and non-biased appraisal of fundamentalism seeing as how he was kicked out of the Southern Baptist Convention for being too liberal

Phil L. said...

You lose credibility when you spout the word "theocracy." That is a scare word used by enemies of Bible believing Christians. Theocracy is for the Muslims, as in Sharia law. Theocracy is impossible under our form of government, and not in the least bit desired by fundamentalists. They prefer true Christian leaders and not some tyrant who dictates laws and policies as if they were commanded by a god of some sort.

Hugh G. said...

It is true that early Christians believed in state sponsored religion. Note that is "state" and not "federal." The purpose of the 1st amendment was to prevent the Feds from establishing a national religion to which all states would be subject. The Bible believing Christians of the time would have gagged on having the Episcopal Church as the official national church. But a Baptist Virginia or Delaware would be just fine for some.

Dumb Fundy said...

Obama did say he was a Kenyan, which turned out to be a big lie in order to promote one of his ghost written books. His birth cert is an obvious fake, not to conceal his nation of birth, but to disguise his bastardy.

gnu xian said...

To say that Obama is not a native-born citizen is simply dumb.

To say that Christian fundamentalists do not want a theocracy is simply wrong.

Christian fundamentalists proclaim science is "from the pit of hell" while holding positions on the national government's science and technology commmittee.

Christian fundamentalists claim the only true understanding of ancient near eastern religious texts and declare apostasy for any deviation from their interpretations.

Christian fundamentalists have contributed significantly to the polarized rhetoric we see in public discourse.

Christian fundamentalists align themselves with the Hebrew God much more so than with the life and teachings of Jesus.

Christian fundamentalists generally don't murder those who don't share the faith, but they are pretty happy that such folks will be subjected to eternal torture.

Christian Fundamentalists should be given several states so that they can live out their blinkered world vision in isolation from the rest of us heathens.

Thai Won On said...

Quite a mouthful there, gnu (and clever name you came up with).

Agree: “To say that Obama is not a native-born citizen is simply dumb.” Obama was born in Hawaii.

Disagree: “To say that Christian fundamentalists do not want a theocracy is simply wrong.” They do want moral leaders and laws. They believe in representational government.

Agree somewhat: “ Christian fundamentalists proclaim science is "from the pit of hell" while holding positions on the national government's science and technology committee.”
Fundamentalists agree that F=ma (force = mass times acceleration). They also know that much of what passes for science is total BS. When you read, “The majority of scientists believe that…” it is not science, it is conjecture. Either F=ma or it doesn’t. It is “scientific” conjecture that is considered “from the pit of hell,” e.g. the idea that man evolved from rocks.

Agree: “Christian fundamentalists claim the only true understanding of ancient near eastern religious texts and declare apostasy for any deviation from their interpretations.”

Agree: “Christian fundamentalists have contributed significantly to the polarized rhetoric we see in public discourse.” Someone must loudly confront and resist the insanity of leftist ideology and propaganda.

Disagree: “Christian fundamentalists align themselves with the Hebrew God much more so than with the life and teachings of Jesus.” Fundamentalists believe the central tenet of the Bible is repentance, salvation, and the Lordship of Christ. Unfortunately, most people leave out the Lordship of Christ part.

Disagree: “Christian fundamentalists generally don't murder those who don't share the faith, but they are pretty happy that such folks will be subjected to eternal torture.” Fundamentalists are saddened by the vast number of lost souls that will never be redeemed. I don’t think of people as burning in hell, but of souls spending eternity separated from God. BTW, the Bible teaches there is a temperature differential in hell - hotter for Stalin, cooler for the unsaved innocent. Probably more fundamentalists than non-fundamentalists know that.

Agree: “Christian Fundamentalists should be given several states so that they can live out their blinkered world vision in isolation from the rest of us heathens.” Lol! It may come to something like that as the makers abandon the takers and leave them to their craphole cities like Detroit and bankrupt states like Illinois and California.

Dr S said...

Had to chuckle at that last exchange - keep up the good work folks!!

WTF? said...

Assuming Republican Senate candidate from Indiana, Richard Mourdock, is a Fundy, he proves they say some incredibly dumbass things. In a debate last night (10-23) he said, “I’ve struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God, and even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”

hoosierdaddy said...

There is not a singular word that would sum up Mourdock's comments, but dumbass comes close. Romney ran as fast as he could, and then there was some serious backpedaling. I think the sad news is that he has a serious chance of winning, which makes some of us pleased to be former Hoosiers.

WTF (Winning the Future) said...

Not to worry about Mourdock winning, hoosier. He doesn't have to think or legislate, just vote R.

WTF? said...

Speaking of being a former Hoosier and now a Coloradan, are you going to vote yes on 64?

hoosierdaddy said...

Actually I was so stoned when I filled out the mail-in ballot, I don't remember! Now that was joke, in case the Feds are listening in on this [talk about a remote possibility]. We have mail in voting, and I actually skipped that one, not being wise enough to discern what it all means.

Anonymous said...

To say that Obama is not a native-born citizen is simply dumb

Then please explain: Why did he spend millions on court costs and attorney fees covering up the birth certificate? He's hiding SOMETHING... although it's unclear exactly what.

Also... from the perspective of American traditionalists, Obama ACTS like a hostile enemy alien; so psychologically it's easier to believe that he IS one.

To say that Christian fundamentalists do not want a theocracy is simply wrong.

I don't know ONE. Every fundamentalist with any sense of history, knows what happened when all Christendom was under Rome.

Since, from a purely scientific persepctive, it is obvious that life begins at conception, preventing the murder of unborn babies should NOT be "theocratic issue" or a "Christian issue" at all. And it isn't -- not totally. To my shock, at one on-campus abortion debate, I met a pro-life gay Jewish male witch. (Someone must have switched on Zaphod's infinite improbability drive that day, LOL). We became friends, and remained friends until his death.

Christian fundamentalists proclaim science is "from the pit of hell" while holding positions on the national government's science and technology commmittee.

Odd, because the scientific method grew out of the Judeo-Christian worldview.

When I was getting my PhD in chemistry, I and a lot of my fellow chemistry PhD candidates used to gather for prayer in a conference room in the main science building. Our God-hating professors didn't like it but there were too many of us, and we were too good at our studies, to get rid of us.

There are a LOT of Christians in science. Outside school, in the work world, I've found that to be true too. I'd wager that the science/engineering world has a HIGHER percent of Christians than the culture at large.

Christian fundamentalists claim the only true understanding of ancient near eastern religious texts and declare apostasy for any deviation from their interpretations.

I've dissented on 6x24 creation, the timing of the rapture, and the moderate use of alcohol, and haven't been called an apostate yet.

Christian fundamentalists have contributed significantly to the polarized rhetoric we see in public discourse.

Hellooo? The Left has forced us into the uncomfortable and unchosen stance of waging a multi-decade DEFENSIVE culture war. They started it. We'd rather stick with evangelism and charity.

Christian fundamentalists align themselves with the Hebrew God much more so than with the life and teachings of Jesus.

Jesus... IS... the Hebrew God... Incarnate.

Christian fundamentalists generally don't murder those who don't share the faith, but they are pretty happy that such folks will be subjected to eternal torture.

Slander. We don't want them to go to hell at all; we want them to change their ways.

Christian Fundamentalists should be given several states so that they can live out their blinkered world vision in isolation from the rest of us heathens.


We'd prosper, you'd fall.

gnu xian said...

Dear Anonymous - interesting counterpoints, but some lack accuracy or understanding. Not sure where to start...

"I've dissented on 6x24 creation, the timing of the rapture, and the moderate use of alcohol, and haven't been called an apostate yet."

You haven't been listening - you would be among the heretics as defined at Christians United Against Apostasy, e.g. http://davemosher.wordpress.com/tag/ken-ham/

"Jesus... IS... the Hebrew God... Incarnate."

Leave out Hebrew there and you have got it. The only Hebrews that I know who accept your statement are Messianic Jews - all other Hebrews reject Jesus, and any who still accept the God of the Hebrew bible await Messiah.

"He's [Obama] hiding SOMETHING... although it's unclear exactly what."

Yes it is unclear, particularly since the long form of his birth certificate has been published. At least we know pretty much what Romney was hiding when he would not release more than a trifling of tax returns.

"When I was getting my PhD in chemistry, I and a lot of my fellow chemistry PhD candidates used to gather for prayer in a conference room in the main science building. Our God-hating professors didn't like it but there were too many of us, and we were too good at our studies, to get rid of us."

Every God-hating professor is countered by a science-hating Christian, with many of the latter in leadership positions in the church and the government. Point is, both are wrong.

"Odd, because the scientific method grew out of the Judeo-Christian worldview."

I would add 'modern' to your statement, since science has been done by non-christian cultures for thousands of years. Also, it should be obvious that even though what you state is correct, there is no compelling evidence that it could not have arisen in other religious settings. Indeed, the Christian church has ostracized scientists over the centuries, from Galileo to the present, e.g. Mary Schweitzer for her work on dinosaurs.

And so on...

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