Wednesday, June 01, 2016

SCIENCE AND RELIGION

From one of my favorite comic strips, Non Sequitur:

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Just some observations from the more-editorial-than-comic:
     The Abrahamic Religions are not contributing
     They have their backs toward the board, and thus do not know what is going on
     They are holding tight to their particular source of truth
     The scientist is having to 'work around' the faith leaders

22 comments:

Bizzy Brain said...

Some people think of Islam as an Abrahamic religion. I would dispute that contention. Christians and Jews have the Old Testament of the Bible in common. The Koran has zero in common with the tenets of the Jewish and Christian religions.

Nunnadis Mattahs said...

I don't see how anyone could believe in the resurrection. After all, it is absolutely, scientifically impossible for a body to come back to life after it has been dead for three days. Yet Bible believing Christians believe that totally unscientific event occurred. It is foolish to believe in anything that can't be supported by science.

DES said...

Bizzy - did you read the link? Accept what you want, dispute the mainstream, whatever makes you happy :-)

DES said...

Nunnadis -trying to pick a fight with Bizzy eh? :-) It is interesting to note that there are several death/resurrection stories associated with gods. Here are 10:
http://listverse.com/2013/03/30/10-resurrected-religious-figures/

DES said...

Also Nunnadis - science cannot say that someone cannot come back to life after three days of death; science can only say that the probability is very, very, very small. Indeed, there are many reports of folks being 'dead' only to have them revive.

John Riegsecker said...

In general mathematics is untroubled by this sort of thing. People who believe in the inerrancy of the bible will generally go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain away the biblical value of pi = 3 (1 Kings 7:23) but I don't think any of them would actually claim that is the true value. So I was astonished this morning to discover that some fundamentalists have a problem with set theory:

http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html

This is so absurd I thought perhaps it was a joke, but no, at

https://www.abeka.com/AbekaDifference.aspx

we read:

Unlike the "modern math" theorists, who believe that mathematics is a creation of man and thus arbitrary and relative, A Beka Book teaches that the laws of mathematics are a creation of God and thus absolute. Man's task is to search out and make use of the laws of the universe, both scientific and mathematical.

A Beka Book provides attractive, legible, and workable traditional mathematics texts that are not burdened with modern theories such as set theory.

I never heard of Beka Books before, but apparently they are popular with homeschoolers and Christian schools. The mind boggles.

DES said...

John - thanks for this info; mind-boggling indeed! When a few of us were doing some preliminary work on biology curriculum for BioLogos, we came across the A Beka Book biology curriculum - it was only one step up from the crazed Bob Jones University curriculum. Here is a blurb on A Beka - "A Beka Book is a publisher affiliated with Pensacola Christian College (PCC) that produces K-12 curriculum materials that are used by Christian schools and homeschooling families around the world. It is named after Rebekah Horton, wife of college president Arlin Horton."

Nunnadis Mattahs said...

It’s fine to talk about a tiny minority of ignorant fundamentalists, but don’t leave out the ignorant, wicked, shrieking lesbian bitch you liberals are about to elect as President. Check our the Lizard Queen and her ilk’s total ignorance of set theory and Venn Diagrams. https://reason.com/blog/2016/05/20/hillary-clinton-just-tweeted-a-godawful

Bizzy Brain said...

Be more than happy to dispute the mainstream, DES. Lol! “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

Bizzy Brain said...

Abraham did father Ishmael, who is considered the father of all Arabs, so that is one connection, but Muslims believe Abraham was the first Muslim, according to your reference. That doesn’t make sense because Muhammad made up the religion in the 600’s and Abraham existed centuries before then. Allah, the pagan moon god, was selected by Muhammad to be the head of his religion. I know a lot of reputable scholars like to elevate Islam to the level of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but that is like elevating a turd to the level of a filet mignon.

DES said...

Bizzy - I am not making a claim for Islam, but rather just stating the 'common interpretation' of the so-called Abrahamic faiths. In fact, I don't see much of a point in making the connection since Judaism, Christianity and Islam are so very, very different. Who cares if we had a common ancestor 2500 years ago??!! The Mormons claim Christianity, but we know that there are some fundamental difference between Mormanism and main-line [or even Baptist :-)] Christianity.

Narrow is the gate and difficult the way - everyone thinks that they are on it and that few others are!!! :-)

Nostradumbass said...

Thanks for the words of wisdom to Bizzy, DES. Who does care about the commonality of ancient ancestors? Seems like many of today's thinkers and writers take everything and turn it into bullshit. In fact, I predict that bullshit will be responsible for the downfall of Western Civilization. How's THAT for a prediction? For example, there's the man-made global warming bullshit that if we don't let the government take total control of our economy and do away with fossil fuels, we are doomed. And there is the racist bullshit. Anything anyone says or does or is nowadays is racist. And there is the men peeing in front of little girls bullshit. I mean, these people make the Pentecostal snake handlers look like paragons of virtue and wisdom. There is going to be total bullshit between now and election day. And it goes on and on... Like I said, death by bullshit.

DES said...

Thanks for the predictions NDA. I tend to agree that BS will be the downfall, but not for the reasons you cite. Rather I think that it is the coming of age of the "me generation" who believe that they deserve whatever it is they want regardless of whether or not they are deserving. This narcissistic generation thinks that they can demand respect rather than earn it, think that they can shout down and shut down anything that they deem to be offensive to their precious snowflake personas, and who are basically spoiled brats who have a sense of entitlement, for which their parents must bear the brunt of responsibility. Re fossil fuels - what a stupid name for carbon based fuels - they probably should be called organic :-) And humanity is doomed, but organic fuels will only be one part of the cause of collapse. Racist - most is indeed BS, but of course The Donald wants to make America great again by making America white again; ain't going to happen. And men in women's bathrooms and vice versa is such a trivial issue that it's not worth my breath to discuss; oh wait, I do have one solution - a separate bathroom for Republicans, and maybe one for Southern Baptists as well!!

Nostradumbass said...

BS idea came from American Digest blog http://americandigest.org/ You have to scroll down to get to the article, written by a Princeton philosophy professor. Or for the PDF http://www.stoa.org.uk/topics/bullshit/pdf/on-bullshit.pdf
Good thoughts, DES, on the snowflake generation. Had a laugh about your fossil fuel comments. There must have been jillions of dinosaurs roaming the earth to produce as much oil as the world consumes. I favor the abiotic oil theory, though that is quite the controversial topic. Agree that Donald is not going to make America great again. And like you say, “ain’t going to happen.” No one is going to do that. My feelings are hurt that you consider men in women’s bathrooms a trivial issue. (jk) My take on it is that it is a huge issue. This is supposed to be America, land of the free and home of the brave. We are supposed to be self-governing from the bottom up, meaning the local folks decide on local issues through their local representatives or a referendum vote. But what we have is a shitstain President deciding where everyone in the country is entitled to pee rather than that decision being left to the local folks in their local communities. It is tyranny. It is the same with the same-sex marriage and abortion issue. Those issues should be decided by the voters at the state level. That the voter is deprived of those decisions is a big cause of the resentment against the establishment those voters have, thus a Donald Trump emerges.

DES said...

Nope - not a huge issue. I'd day the US and world fiat currency that will sooner or later collapse is a big issue; the radical killer religionists are a huge issue; the I don't need to earn what I need/want, I deserve it attitude is a huge issue. People who believe that their version of God's will is the one and only true version are a problem. Come back when there is a mass murder caused by a transgender in the "wrong" bathroom. Come back when there is a violent killing rampage by a "radical" atheist.

Agreed about home-rule; problem is that the voters are too dumb to even vote for what is in the best interest of the whole - they will only vote for what the believe will benefit them personally. As the book notes "Whats the Matter with Kansas?"

As cousin Brett likes to note, for which I agree:


"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”

- Alexander Tyler, ca 1887

Hugh G. said...

Alexander Tyler said that? Gee, I was just thinking the same thing. That is, if they aren't too fat and lazy to get out of bed and go to the polls.

hoosierdadday said...

Hugh G [a favorite word of the Donald!] Good point - this fits the description of way too many Hoosiers!

Nostradumbass said...

Re: "Come back..." There is mass murder caused by homosexuals because Muslims hate them and our coddling of them is one of the reasons they like to murder Americans.

DES said...

Nostra - your last comment sure lives up to the second part of your handle!! The logic is so tortuous that my brain about froze. I suppose that you would also blame the Christian terrorist killings on the homosexuals, eh? What about the mentally ill mass murderers - queers get the blame for that too. Also - last time I looked, the Muslims were killing each other at a much greater pace that killing Americans - by that term, I assume you mean USA citizens since there are many Americans other than US folks.

Nostradumbass said...

What’s the matter, DES? Can’t decipher my tortured logic? Can’t say as I blame you. Lol! I did not say homosexuals commit mass murder. I said they “cause” mass murder because Muslims hate them and want to see them dead. In other words, a human being, by virtue of simply being gay, incites Muslim rage to the point that they go on a berserk killing rampage. Gays are used as a “reason” or excuse for the mass murder.
I did sign up for a logic course one time back in the 60’s, but the class was canceled due to insufficient enrollment. I did, however, buy the text and still have it. Will have to dust it off and read it sometime.

DES said...

Well, Nostra, I did follow your logic, such as it is :-) I think that it is not simply homosexuality that incites Muslims to kill; most recent example - the beheading of a Catholic priest in France. Heck, Muslims kill each other in huge numbers compared to anything that has happened in this country. Also, remember that many Christians are also outraged by homosexuality. Thankfully, this usually doesn't lead to murder, but on some occasions, it has.

hoosierdaddy said...

I think that perhaps homosexuality will perhaps save the species and the planet. The biggest threat that could cause collapse and extinction is over-population. It would be good if the majority of folks did not have offspring!!!