Wednesday, January 16, 2019

THE APOSTATE'S GREED

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There was a bit of a kerfuffle a while back at the funeral of President George H.W. Bush.  President Trump and Melania declined to read along with the recitation of the Apostles' Creed while all of the other former Presidents and First Ladies joined in.  I thought it a bit odd at the time, and awaited to see what the responses might be.  I expected the hard-core, evangelical right wingers would be quick to give a pass, and I was not let down.

Franklin Graham compared Trump’s failure to recite the creed (which declares belief in God the Father, Christ, and the Holy Spirit) to his own unwillingness to sing in church.

Robert Jeffress opined "There are times in my own church services when I fail to sing the hymns or recite the Scripture because I’m distracted by my own thoughts. I imagine the leader of the free world has a few things on his mind, as well."

Good old boy Ted Nugent claimed "The president participated in a public ceremony in his capacity as head of state, not as a Presbyterian.  As such, he has no obligation to declare those theological truths, or any others, aloud in public."

And Jesse Lee Peterson, a far-right radio host and Christian pastor, has a defense for Trump’s seemingly un-Christian characteristics. According to Peterson, the Creed is a “phony act” that is not a “Christian thing to be reciting.”

But the video below takes the cake.  It's worth watching the whole thing, but is essence, Melania has recruited The Donald to join the Remnant Catholic Church who claim to be the only true Christians. And as such, they cannot participate in any church rituals other than of the Remnant Church.



71 comments:

hoosierdaddy said...

Occam's Razor - simplest explanation - Trump glanced at the Creed, noted that it wasn't all about him, and passed.

Zia said...

hoosier - you miss Trump's brilliance! He knows more about the Creed than anybody; he's read the Creed more than anybody; he has studied the Creed and know more about it than all theologians; he has a gut feeling that the Creed is just not right and thus will not recite it. He's rewriting it, maybe to be called what Dr S labeled this post - The Apostate's Greed!!

Stormy Swallowell said...

Commenters are going to have a field day with this one and you know who I'm talking about. Lol!

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said...

Maybe Trump didn’t recite the Apollo Creed because he was still upset, as were many, many others, that Apollo got killed in the Rocky IV movie.

Douglas E said...

Indeed Stormy - let the good times roll!!

Douglas E said...

Rep AO-C - that might be the most astute comment you've made since being elected!

Yodie Yoder said...

Clever title, and maybe there is one apostate in the photo. An apostate is someone who has abandoned their religious faith, political loyalties, or principles. If anything, Trump has gained religious faith the last few years, especially since rubbing elbows with Mike Pence. The Obama’s and Clinton's had no Christian religious faith to begin with. Am sure they have political loyalties that remain unchanged, but as for principles, they had none to begin with and have none now. Carter is the unique one. Everyone believed he was a staunch, Bible-believing Christian when he entered the political arena, but he turned out to be anti-Semitic and supporter of positions on abortion and homosexual acts that conflict with Biblical teachings. However, he did have the decency to leave the Southern Baptist Convention when it was revealed he was an “apostate.”

Klure G. Mann said...

By your definition, Yodie, Carter is not an apostate. He did not abandon his religious faith. He has a liberal religious faith that in many ways conflicts with the Bible, as properly interpreted. For example, liberal Christians believe "love trumps sin." Anything goes as long as it's done in the name of love, for example, homosexual acts. Carter is what I would call a heretic, not an apostate.

Bizzy Brain said...

“Good old boy” Ted Nugent nailed it. The President was obligated to attend the funeral ceremony. He was not obligated to religiously participate. Just because someone handed him a piece of paper on the way in the door did not mean he had to meaninglessly recite the words on the paper at the appropriate time. Furthermore, the Bible counsels righteous men like Trump to avoid association with the wicked and ungodly (Psalm 1:1). Participating in the reciting with the likes of the Obama’s and the Clinton’s would imply some kind of spiritual unity and fellowship with those non-Christian pus sacs. Trump rose above that by just standing there and not reciting.

hoosierdaddy said...

Oh my, oh my, oh my - if having one screw loose makes for a bit of crazy, you three have dozens that need tightening!!!

YY - Trump has gained religious faith?! What a crock of shit!! The man will say anything and do anything if it aggrandizes himself. I think that many politicians embrace a certain brand of Christianity primarily for political reasons. The Clintons and Obama are prime examples; Bush Junior, not so much; and Carter is the only real Christian by any measure to become a modern day President. I would be proud to be considered an apostate of the SBC.

Klure G Mann - wanna see a heretic - have a gander in your bathroom mirror!

And Bizzy - just another big crock of shit!! Equating Trump and righteousness is both laughable and sad. He is one of the most despicable people I can think of, from wrangling out the the service, to claiming not getting an STD was his personal Vietnam, from years of unethical business dealings, to serial adultery and fornication, to no longer being able to keep all of his lies straight. You are just another blindered right-wing evangelical who will twist themselves into a pretzel to justify support for the tRump. Why can't evangelicals simply admit that this man is a douche bag, but acts as though he is pro-life? His actions toward minorities, women, the disabled, Gold Star families, immigrants, and virtually anyone who is not his boot-licker speak much louder than his pious platitudes.

You Buy-Bull thumpers ought to spend a bit of time contemplating Thessalonians 2:2 regarding the Man of Lawlessness.

Yodie Yoder said...

If your definition of modern day goes back to the late 40's you would have to include Harry Truman as a Christian. Though he was a Southern Baptist, he differed somewhat from Jimmuh Carter in that he did not believe cornholing, baby murder, and Jew-hatred were compatible with being a Christian. You also forgot to mention Ronald Reagan, a Christian, who came after Carter.
Would not blame anyone for becoming an apostate of the SBC nowadays. The current president of the SBC is a crackpot who believes Allah and the God of the Bible are one and the same, that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. And the head of the public policy arm of the SBC, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, is a liberal Democrat who hates Trump with a passion, and is a one-world, open borders globalist.

Coe E. Tuss said...

Trumps iniquities pale in comparison to David's of David and Goliath fame.

Lou Siefer said...

Hoosier, I must compliment you on your clever play on words, Buy-Bull rather than Bible. Remind me not to stand next to you during a thunderstorm. Mwahahahahaha....

Douglas E said...

Yodie - correct.

Coe - most Christians try to emulate Jesus as opposed to Davidians emulating David. Trump obviously is just one murder short of David.

Lou - I like hoosierdaddy's Buy Bull since many folks seem to pick and choose, buying whatever bull pleases them! :-)

Bizzy Brain said...

Would like to present my own play on words. Rather than “Buy-Bull,” I would refer to the Bible as “Bye-Bull,” the ultimate source of reality a seeking human can study to say “good-BYE” to all the Bull of the secular world and non-Christian religions. Yes, the Bible enables me to say, “Bye-Bull.”
Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2, the Man of Lawlessness is the anti-Christ, who has not yet made his appearance on the world stage, though we do have an “anti-Christ lite” pop up every now and then, such as Barack Obama.

DES said...

BB, interesting how two very intelligent folks like you and me can see things so differently:-) Also, you didn't comment on the vifeo.

Bizzy Brain said...

Haven't forgotten about the video. Will be getting to it later. First reaction on "intelligent folks like you and me" with such different viewpoints. We are identical seeds that were planted in different soil conditions, thus did not grow up to be the same. Maybe one of our soil conditions needed a shot of marl. Lol!

DES said...

Well I rode along on a lot of marl runs with both Sam and John!

Nostradumbass said...

Just read your post. Great topic! I predict Alexandria Occluded Cortex will go down in history as the most unbelievably stupid politician to ever be elected to national office. Her thinking circuits are so out of sync, it has to be a form of serious mental illness.

Bizzy Brain said...

I rode along on water runs with your Dad, DES, way back when he raised tomatoes. He had some kind of tanker truck that he filled with water at the New Paris Creamery. My thinking was this truck when filled with water must have weighed two or three times the load limit listed on the rusty iron bridges we drove across to get to the tomato field. Could imagine us plunging into the drink due to over weight and collapsing the bridge. Ed just laughed about it.

DES said...

A good memory, BB. Ed would say he raised tomatoes twice, the first time and the last time!

BizzyBrain said...

Very much enjoyed the William Tapley video. Found it to be more entertaining than “enlightening,” which may be his purpose. Tapley retired as a furniture engineer and took up being an “eccentric Biblical prophet of doom” as his retirement hobby, is my impression. He almost seems to be presenting his ideas sort of tongue in cheek. He freely associates news events, names, images, numbers, TV commercials or anything else that crosses his notice and construes those as having prophetic significance. I believe apophenia might be a good word to describe his thought process. Apophenia is the tendency to sometimes mistakenly perceive connections and meaning between unrelated things. In the psychiatrist office, this could be considered the beginning stages of schizophrenia. As said earlier, he is entertaining and informative, but I don’t have the sense that he is taking himself all that seriously.

Bizzy Brain said...

Might add that I'm a fan of conspiracy theories. The powers that be definitely did not want a Kansas City - New Orleans Super Bowl, and voila, the Saints get booted on a call so flagrantly bad that it had to be planned.

Douglas E said...

Bizzy - I too am a fan, but only because I am amazed at how bat-$@!* crazy some folks are! I loved finding all of the Beatles' clues as to why Paul is dead :-) The thing about a real theory is that it must explain ALL of the data, and must be testable. Remember, theories are never proved, but are the best explanation. About the NFL - I do believe that there is a bias toward certain teams and players; whether or not it is covert remains a question. The NBA is worse IMHO - the refs go out of their way to protect "star" player, James Harden being the most brazen example. He can do crap that others would get called for, or even ejected, and the refs ignore and Harden smirks. The NHL is the only pro sport that does not seem to favor teams or players. EOR [end of rant]

Pascal Disciple said...

After having digested, or at least trying to digest, the above comments, am thinking it is time to again remind people of Pascal's Wager. Words to the effect, if one chooses to believe in God and God exists, the bet is won. If one chooses to believe in God and He doesn't exist, nothing is lost. However, if one chooses to NOT believe in God and He exists, then all is lost. Therefore, I am more than willing to accept the Bible's take on reality as truth rather than throw it out the window and risk losing it all.

Pascal Disciple said...

On the other hand, some have made a convincing case that those who don't make it to heaven don't suffer ten level pain for all eternity. The Bible says the wages of sin is death. Baptist preachers always clarify by adding "spiritual" to make it "spiritual death" because they believe that makes it mean no one dies. (To me, spiritual death would still be a cease to exist death.) Rather than a simple interpretation that "Unbelievers cease to exist and believers spend eternity with God," they like the idea of unbelievers experiencing excruciating torment for all of eternity, and won't give up on that idea. When you see the mugs of some of those in the photo, you can understand why.

Douglas E said...

Bizzy - how do you know that Trump is not the one who directly precedes the anti-Christ?
PD - always hard to comprehend how the often-called God of Love can punish people mercilessly for eternity.

Douglas E said...

Zia - I should have concurred that nobody can do more about more things than Donald Trump - this video sums it up! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA631bMT9g8

Lou Siefer said...

Not to worry, Douglas E., my, er, your side is winning. The rate of cultural decline is rapidly accelerating as we approach the barbaric dystopia predicted by…wait for it…the Bible! Ain’t nobody, not even Trump, going to change that. Mwahahahaha…

Bizzier than Ever Brain said...

RE: who directly precedes the anti-Christ. Everything is in place for the beginning of the Great Tribulation. The only thing delaying the arrival is Trump. When he goes, the deep state globalists will have nothing holding them back. The dollar will be dumped as the world reserve currency, the international bankers will try to institute a cashless society which will require an approved identifying ID to access ("mark of the beast" anyone?). Only clinker in total banking control is, will the criminals and cartels go along with it? Hard to imagine and haven't worked that one out yet. But the rest of the stuff will happen when the Dems inevitably gain the Congress and Presidency. Total dictatorial control by abolition of the 1st and 2nd Amendments, a financial collapse, great civil distress and unrest, crime beyond belief, etc., etc., read Revelation.

Zia said...

Bizzier - you know darn well that folks have for centuries be claiming that "everything is in place" and we know that has gone. The deep state globalists are largely a figment of your imagination, and it will be a while before the dollar is dumped - but if the no-tax-and-spend-big Republicans keep at it, they will crash the dollar. We already have a large cashless society with approved identity. And Revelation!!?? The author[s] was obviously either a bit crazy or stoned, or both, and people have been fruitlessly showing the "truth" of the prophesy - from Russia on back. I guess it's easier to make stuff up rather than paying attention to the actual data that point toward the end of civilization, a la Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

hoosierdaddy said...

Hey Lou - did not Yahweh create everything, including you? You should show a little more deference since he could off you in a millisecond - not sure why that hasn't happened. My side? Ha. I am on the side of truth and justice. Cultural decline and barbaric dystopia? Double Ha. The biggest sign of any such thing is that a completely totally depraved despicable person is the POTUS. And right behind him are the scumbag politicians who refuse to govern in accordance to the Constitution and the institutions of the Republic. I would say that there are many on your side in the White House and the halls of Congress.

Bizzier Brain said...

Zia, I believe the people who claimed centuries ago that “everything is in place” were mistaken. There are certain Bible prophecies that need to be fulfilled before the beginning of the Great Tribulation and those prophecies did not begin coming into play until well into the 20th century. And when speaking of a cashless society, am speaking of one totally cashless. No currency, coins, or checks. Everything is done electronically. Your “paycheck” is direct deposited, like we have now, but there are no ATM’s where you use a card to withdraw currency. A card linked to your bank account is used for every financial transaction. You have no piggy bank, no money under the mattress, no hoard of valuable coins, no wad of bills in your front pocket or purse. You may have those things, but they are useless in regard to buying anything. In other words, you have no ultimate control of your assets. Only the government through the banks does.

Douglas E said...

Too Bizzy of a Brain - I just read this quote from Eric Zencey, which seems apropos to your thinking: “There is seduction in apocalyptic thinking. If one lives in the Last Days, one’s actions, one’s very life, take on historical meaning and no small measure of poignance.”

Douglas E said...

BB - I would like to hear the specifics of which prophesies are on the horizon. Second - I cannot envision a totally cashless society; there are too many of us revolutionaries who have currency and coins such that there will always be a black market for "real" money. The government tried to seize gold in 1933, but that did not fare well. Here is a really long look at the possibility of the government trying to make another run at it: http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/gold-seizure-ganz/

Bizzy Brain said...

My brain is going to have to get busier than ever to keep up with the comments. Lol! Hoosierdaddy, you refer to Trump as a "completely totally depraved despicable person." I have not come across any reliable evidence to support that claim. Now if you substitute Obama for Trump, that would make perfect sense. Agree about the politicians and most other things you had to say, though, to your statement that you are on the side of "truth and justice," I would add "and the American way." Got that, Superman? "Truth, justice, and the American way!"

hoosierdaddy said...

OK BB - here we go: been married three times and committed adultery during each marriage; bragged about groping women; attacked a fallen US soldier and his family; smeared American POW's and their families; mocked a journalist with a disability; dodged the draft; filed for bankruptcy at least 4 times to dodge all of his shady business dealings; won't publish his tax returns; stiffs contractors and sub-contractors; employs undocumented workers for years while railing against same; ran a fake charity; ran a disreputable educational company; has told at least 7000 untruths during his presidency; encourages his base to punch those who disagree; has no moral compass other than what will enhance himself; claims no one knows the Bible better than himself, and then refers to Two Corinthians; and I could go on.....reliable evidence IMHO!

Bizzy Brain said...

Douglas E, how the heck did you come up with a quote from Eric Zencey? "Seduction?" "Apocalyptic thinking?" "Historical meaning?" "Poignance?" Don't understand what he is trying to say. It reminds me of the cartoon cliche of the old guy with long white hair and beard, in a white robe, standing on a street corner with sign in hand that says, "The end is near." Lol! The end could come tomorrow or a thousand years from now. Though signs point to sooner, am not losing any sleep over it.

Bizzy Brain said...

Douglas E, you can look up signs of the end times prophecies on the internet for a list. Am sure there would be a way for you to refute them, so will stick with the one mentioned earlier, the cashless society, which can't be refuted. That one puzzled Bible scholars until now where we have the technology to go totally cashless with electronic funds transfers, credit cards, PayPal and other methods of person to person private transfer. Agree there could still be black market and barter on a small scale.

Bizzy Brain said...

Thanks for the list of Trump's despicable behaviors! Will keep it handy for future reference! Was particularly appalled at his references to Corinthians as 1 and 2 rather than 1st and 2nd.

Bizzy Brain said...

Zia, need to add that "deep state globalists" are not a figure of my imagination. Globalism does exist in many spheres, such as economic, political, and cultural globalism. Look it up. And it certainly isn't the likes of me that is in control of it, it is the "man behind the curtain," the deep state.

Six Sigma Sez said...

"His weak, wishy-washy, namby-pamby efforts, imbecile in matter, disgusting in manner, have made us the laughing stock of the whole world. The European powers will despise us because we have no better material out of which to make a President...Take him from his vocation and he loses even these small characteristics and indulges in simple twaddle which would disgrace a well bred school boy.”

Said about Abraham Lincoln in the Salem Advocate in 1861.

Six Sigma Sez said...

"He is evidently a person of very inferior cast of character, wholly unequal to the crisis."

Said about Abraham Lincoln by Edward Everett, a clergyman, educator, and politician of the time.

And that, my friends, is why I consider Trump-hating opinions totally irrelevant.

DES said...

Most Trump "haters" don't really hate, but rather are disgusted by his entire persona. And please add to the despicable list - pays hundreds of thousands in hush money to his whores!

hoosierdaddy said...

SSS regarding quotes:

First is was: "My worship for him is like the people of North Korea worship their Dear Leader—blind loyalty. Once he gave that Mexican rapist speech, I’ll walk across glass for him. That’s basically it.”

Now it is: “I knew he was a shallow, lazy ignoramus, and I didn’t care,” and "not giving us what he promised"

Transgender Lesbian Darling of the Right Wing Nuts - Ann Coulter

Bizzy Brain said...

DES, Trump paid money as part of a nondisclosure agreement. At least he is man enough to attract women. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, was not so much of a ladies' man and had to harass and rape certain women he wanted. Am not sure why he was not prosecuted and convicted for rape, but it probably had something to do with a woman's desire to be a live rape victim than a dead rape victim. You have heard of Arkanicide, right? The laundry list of Clinton murder victims? Vince Foster anyone?

Also, Trump is not hated for being a boor, he is an enemy of leftist ideologues, who want him dead. They want everyone dead who obstructs their leftist ideology. Obams's mentor, Bill Ayres, former leader of the Weather Underground, stated that if his communists gained control of the government, perhaps 25 million Americans would have to be killed if they resisted and didn't get with the program.

Six Sigma Sez said...

Hey, Hoosier, time for a chest bump and handshake! Ann Coulter is no longer my darling, however. I enjoyed her acerbic comments as she is a master of the insult, but think now she is off her rocker. Cannot believe she suddenly turned on Trump like a snake. He did not cave on the wall. The government will close down again after the three week period if there is no wall agreement, which there won't be. What will the ignoramus say then? She is madly in love with Trump again? It will be too late for her to go back because she will have lost all credibility and that translates into lost book sales. Still shaking my head as to why she turned into such a total dumbass.

Douglas E said...

Non-disclosure agreement - just another way to say keep your mouth shut, and usually does not involve a six-figure pay off!

Douglas E said...

Also, Bizzy - I would agree that Slick Willy is scum, but don't buy in to the conspiracy/murder theory. Even Vince Foster's family is outraged by such a loose twisting of the facts: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/after-investigating-clinton-white-house-and-vincent-fosters-death-brett-kavanaugh-had-change-of-heart/2018/08/02/66ee2b2c-91f5-11e8-9b0d-749fb254bc3d_story.html?utm_term=.76530606b9e9

Sum Ting Wong said...

Have to agree with Biz. Leftist hate has turned into bloodlust. They want those who insult or threaten or impede the implementation of their ideology dead. The poor Catholic kid with the MAGA hat who was accosted by an Indian fraud is getting death threats and his school bomb threats. All he did was stand there with a shit-eating grin on his face, hoping to defuse the crazies around him. Then the media pours gas on the fire by lying about the incident to make it look like the kid was the villain. The left is simply despicable.

Tin Foy Elhat said...

Douglas E. of course the Foster family and others are not going to complain about Vince. They know what's good for them and don't want to suffer the same fate.

Douglas E said...

Tin - glad that you have the foil hat!!

Tin Foy Elhat said...

Thanks, Douglas E. Will have to discuss my cosmic philosophy with you sometime.

Douglas E said...

SSS - re AC - the Adam's Apple is dead giveaway!! Never married, hit and miss with "boy friends" and so on :-)

Douglas E said...

BB - did some reading on the end-times prophesies including the cashless society that is indirectly referred to in Revelation, e.g. this: https://endtimestruth.com/mark-of-the-beast/cashless-society/

I still think it is all BS!

Bizzy Brain said...

Thanks for the End Times Truth link, Douglas E! It is the best one I've come across. Guess one man's BS is another man's source of truth.

DES said...

de nada, y verdad

Zia said...

Get Bizzy Brain - I am not going to do your work for you. Let's see some facts and data, not some speculation and conspiracy theory. Remember, "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Bizzy Brain said...

Am not sure what you are trying to get at, Zia. You state that deep state globalists are a figment of my imagination. The existence of the deep state is common knowledge. The existence of globalists and globalism is common knowledge. If a person is not aware of or does not believe that, I don't know where a conversation can go. And you say the author of Revelation was a bit crazy or stoned or both, meaning you have little to zero regard for the Bible. Yet you believe in evolution (one species "evolving" into another), for which there is no scientific evidence and which is physically, chemically, and mathematically impossible. When you come back with the evidence of how DNA evolved from rock, them maybe I will take a second look at what you have to say.

Rick O'Shea said...

And don't give Biz any of that "primordial soup" bullshit, Zia.

Zia said...

At least Bizzy and I agree on one thing - having a conversation would be fruitless. So as a final response, I would simply say the following:

A person with a rational, fact-based perspective with a philosophy and theology that are founded on the truths of science cannot have a meaningful conversation with a person whose understanding of science is based on the stories told and written by an ancient near east culture that knew precious little about the realities of the earth as revealed by science. To accept the Hebrew bible as a science text is not only misguided, but disingenuous. While there are truths to be found in those many books, scientific truths are not among them.

The deep state is a concoction of the Limbaugh-Hannity-Jones and so on's warped perspective of the US, and is just code to cast aspersions on anyone who might disagree with that perspective.

Conflating the origin of species, evolution, with the origin of life demonstrates a serious flaw in understanding all of biology, and to make the claim of no evidence for evolution is sheer nonsense. There are many things that I don't understand, but just because I don't understand them does not mean that they are not true. Claiming evolution is impossible is just a statement that you don't understand it, and thus it is impossible.

Finally, ricochet, you and your other semi-clever pseudonym brethren should have a few bowls of the primordial soup - it should go very well with all of the Kool Aide you drink.

Bizzy Brain said...

Let’s see, Zia, scientists told us the world was going to run out of food by 1976. Scientists told us in the 1960’s that a new ice age was approaching and we were gong to freeze to death. Then scientists started telling us in the 1970’s and on it’s the other way around, that we were going to roast to death due to man-made global warming, deadlines for that occurrence coming and going over the decades, the latest deadline for that event being quoted by Alexandria Occluded Cortex who said we’ve got 12 years left unless someone does something about it. So tell me, Zia, who is the bullshit artist? The scientist? Or the preacher who proclaims “the end is near?”

Scientists cannot prove God exists. On the other hand, scientists cannot prove He doesn’t exist. Science cannot prove a negative, thus to say the deep state does not exist is fallacious. You may not be able to measure the deep state with a scientific instrument, but it is fairly obvious that those who control vast amounts of money have control over the politicians who receive vast amounts of that money. Those unnamed folks with tons of money who influence current events are collectively referred to as the deep state.

Bizzy Brain said...

Regarding biology, I have taken all the biology courses required for a degree in zoology, so am no stranger to biological concepts and realize there may be a type of distinction between the origin of life and evolution. No one has any valid scientific idea of how we got from molten rock to DNA. It is all pure guesswork, none which of has remotely been duplicated in the lab. Still, to evolutionists, it must have been a chemical “evolution” process of some sort. Chemicals floated around in their little cup of Lipton soup and some forces acted on them and caused them to form into more complex chemicals until they ended up as the vastly complicated DNA. Then somehow more stuff happened that resulted in a more vastly complicated one-celled organism still floating around in its cup of Lipton. Then it began magically transforming. For example, “Some cells became sensitive to light.” Whoa, how did that happen, perfesser? “Well, it jis happen.” None of that “jis happen” can be recreated in the lab, because it is impossible, because it didn’t “jis happen.”

After getting to the point of a unique species of organism, changes can occur within that particular species that biologists call evolution, but evolution in the sense of one species transforming completely into another reproducing species has never been proven or demonstrated. Horses and donkeys can produce mules, but those mules do not thrive and reproduce themselves as a separate species. They are 99% sterile.

Bizzy Brain said...

I define science as an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe. Some folks live and die by that philosophy by reducing all knowledge to that which can be measured or confirmed by the application of some kind of scientific method. However, there is much reality that lies outside the reach of the test tube, the paranormal, for example. It can’t be scientifically explained, but exists. You say there are many things that you don't understand, but just because you don't understand them does not mean that they are not true. That makes sense. There are many things I don’t understand that are true. But based on my knowledge of probability theory, evolution is not one of them. That is why I state that evolution of one species into another is so highly unlikely probability-wise it is considered impossible. By the way, Kool-Aid is spelled with a hyphen and the folks at Jonestown drank Flavor Aid, spelled with no hyphen. Lol! (Whew, you wear me out!)

Douglas E said...

Bizzy, I must say that you are at your schizoid best with your latest comments - switching effortlessly between truth and nonsense! So.....

First - You have to understand that science is a self-correcting enterprise; the things you mention are certainly valid examples, but such things went by the wayside as the science progressed. This has been going on since the days of Galileo, and sooner or later, the incorrect positions are replaced by correct data. I will admit that there is a lot of inertia, trendiness and group-think in science, and have witnessed it myself, but even though it may take years to overcome, bad science is replaced by good science. Sadly, it is often religion that stands in the way of scientific progress, from Bruno to Mary Schweitzer.

Second - you will likely agree that taking some biology/science courses does not make you a scientist. I took two years of German courses and have no fluency in German! Although as you say "I am not a stranger" to German language and culture :-) You talk about rocks to DNA, and of course no scientists suggest this. It seems clear that RNA preceded DNA, and that it's also clear that science is a long way from understanding how purines and pyrimidines first came about. And you misunderstand evolution completely if you believe that one species transforms into another.

Third - A O-Cortex is not a totally unfair descriptor!

Fourth - I don't think that there is really any such thing as paranormal or supernatural. What we consider as such has some explanation in the natural world that is now well beyond our understanding. I have had numerous experiences with ESP, but just chalk it up to it being a phenomenon that we cannot yet explain - but expect that some day we will.

Fifth - you know darn well that something highly unlikely, extremely low probability, does not make is it impossible. I point to you as an example: given that your father produced hundreds of trillions of sperm during his lifetime, and that your mother produced hundreds of thousands of eggs, the probability that the one sperm and the one egg that make you uniquely you is astronomically small. Now take that times all the generations that preceded your father and mother, and the odds become infinitesimally small - yet here you are!

Sixth - glad that I drink Kool-Aid and not Flavor Aid.

Bizzy Brain said...

Point 1) Agree mostly except the religion standing in the way of progress part. It's usually the other way around. Scientists use science to discredit religious beliefs.

Point 2) I do not use the word DNA in a strict literal sense. Everyone has heard of DNA, but not purines and pyrimidines. DNA is a stand in for those so the reader doesn't get confused. Guess my genetics professor was full of it when he showed pictures of fossilized species that gave rise to subsequent species. For example, millions of years ago there was a distinct genus Dinohippus that evolved into Equus.

Point 3) AOC is proof there is devolution.

Point 4) The paranormal is real. Just because it cannot be explained doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Point 5) Impossible is perhaps too strong a word. I like inconceivable better. I can conceive of sending a rocket to the moon. I cannot conceive of sending a rocket to the moon in one second. I cannot conceive of a molten rock evolving into human beings without divine assistance. Why didn't earth remain an inhospitable rock like most all of the other heavenly bodies that are not stars or comets?

Point 6) In my dotage, I drink nothing but Ice Mountain brand spring water from Michigan, whole milk, and unsweetened iced tea at the restaurant.

Douglas E said...

Just to clarify point 4 - just semantics; I did not say it was not "real", just that it can exist without an explanation, but my thinking is that everything we call paranormal or supernatural has a definable explanation to be determined.

Steve Heller said...

Interesting back and forth. In the meantime, am going to check out the William Tapley YouTubes and website to see if he is preacher? Entertainer? Crackpot? All of the above? Lol!

DES said...

Hey cuz, give us a report.

Dean G. Barry said...

Maybe the final word? “Yeah, well, that’s just like your opinion, man.” Jeff Bridges as The Dude from “The Big Lebowski.”

DES said...

Dear Gil, maybe so. But another quote, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not to their own facts.:-)