Perspectives of a Colorado Curmudgeon on topics ranging from Basketball to Music to Science & Religion to Travel to Memories, touching on a bit of everything.
I are not Christian, I are atheist, butt they is something ‘bout religious folk that intrigue I. It fun to watch them people sing that song, even though they be totally igorant for being religious. An ain’t that what life about? Fun an igornance? Keep up them good work, Dock.
We were talking about doctrines of demons in Sunday School class yesterday, evolution being one of them, and for some strange reason, Jerry Coyne's name came to mind. Lol!
Well Bizzy, in my book all doctrines and dogma are of demons. They are simply ways of one group of folks telling others what to think and how to behave. :-)
From the Real Jerry Coyne - "But somebody has to point out that I DID NOT MAKE THAT FIRST COMMENT!" Since Jerry's IQ is higher than anyone who has ever visited this blog, that seemed obvious!! :-)
Wow! Sounds like Jerry might be the smartest person to ever spend eternity separated from God! If he were that smart, he would believe in the Bible as the unerring word of God. If it is true, he experiences a glorious eternity. If the Bible is not true, nothing is lost. However, if he chooses not to believe, and the Bible is true, then all is lost for poor Jerry. Also, if he were that smart, he would be familiar with probability theory, entropy, and the vast complexity of DNA, and realize evolution just doesn't add up.
To be clear BB, Professor Coyne does not read this blog!! I thought your attempt at humor might bring a smile to his face. And since he holds that he has not yet seen any evidence for the god of the bible or any other god for that matter or for an eternity beyond life as we know it, I'm sure he has no interest in "adding" some things up for you :-)
I have never seen any evidence of a so-called Jerry Coyne, therefore I do not believe he exists. Nothing you can say, do, or present will convince me otherwise. Lol!
BB - I found this: "In the second century BCE Nagarjuna proved that nothing really exists and nothing ever really happens. This is the claim of Middle Way Buddhism and phrased in one way or another is the claim of the Perennial philosophy."
Thanks for the information! By the way, did you know your buddy, Jerry, believes there is no such thing as free will? People are not responsible for their own lives because they have no choice. They are victims of circumstances, thus if they are jobless, homeless, out-of-wedlock mom, etc., they had no choice in the matter. You know what that makes Jerry? An effing crackpot, i.e. a liberal. Lol! So research and publish and blog away, Jerry. I think you're totally full of shit!
BB is right, Doc. I came to believe in the idea of determinism (no free will) after reading a paper by Anthony Cashmore on determinism and the criminal justice system. He states that recognizing there is no free will makes one more empathetic and less judgmental: "A lot of politics—particularly Republican politics—is based on the supposition that people are responsible for their own lives. So, for example, people who are on welfare, or homeless people, are treated as if they could have done otherwise. They could have gotten a job, they could have gotten married and had a father for their kids. But they couldn't, because they're victims of circumstance."
Things busy - I'm pretty sure that Professor Coyne, or anyone for that matter, does not want their name to be surreptitiously and unscrupulously used by another person. So I'll just say give it up.
Second - my opinion is that Coyne and his no-free-will cohort are all wet :-) I no longer read his posts on free will because I don't accept the premise, which as I understand it, is simply that when you make a decision, it is based on everything that has happened in your life up to that point, and thus you could not have made any other decision. To me that is trivial and simply a matter of semantics. Of course your decisions are based on everything previous, but I think that you can think about all of that and make a decision, and then change your mind, and change it again....and so on. I don't accept the Calvinist idea of pre-destination, and I don't accept the secular equivalent of molecular predestination. Also, for me, perception is often reality, and I have the perception of free will, and thus accept that I have it.
Thanks for the interesting and clarifying explanation of free will. I don't think scientists have explained yet how molecules can think. In other words, no one can understand consciousness from the standpoint of chemistry and physics. Perfessor Coyne has not convinced me that evolution is true, but if he were to make a case for devolution, I could understand that. He is a perfect example. He has devolved to the point his human parts are missing and his brain is warped, yet he thrives. Lol!
BTW, the last "Jerry Coyne" comment was a direct quote from him in an article I read, thus his words and ideas were not distorted. The only altered part was the first sentence, "BB is right, Doc." The rest came out of Jerry's mouth verbatim.
It is impossible for me to believe that reality consists only of atoms and molecules, and that they can arrange themselves in such a way that one assemblage of molecules can hate or love or kill or save a different assemblage of molecules. Give me a break. I believe we are spiritual beings in a physical body and that one day our physical bodies will die and decay, but the spirit will live on, or not, depending on what denomination you belong to. Lol!
Well Bizzy, you are certainly "free" to believe anything you want 😊 However, physical reality is indeed only made up of observable particles, from subatomic particles to the entirety of the universe. This of course does not rule out the possibility of a spiritual world, but if it indeed exists, there needs to be more evidence that simply what you [or your denomination] believe. 😁 What is your rationale for believing in a spiritual world?
Have not come up with my favorite rationale yet, but in the meantime you can google "evidence for a spiritual world" and come up with a ton of references. I will probably lean toward the idea that molecules have not been shown to be able to think, and certain irrefutable facts presented in the Bible. Or, leaving the Bible out of it, there is much personal testimony and evidence for the paranormal, which is a spiritual dimension.
Interesting. My current take on the "paranormal" is that it really is normal, but as yet without any clear explanation. E.g. ESP - having had several such experiences, I think that there is something real there, but as yet it is not understood or clearly demonstrated.
Well, Theorus, I suppose you think you're very clever and funny with that name of yours, which is a takeoff on Pthirus pubis. (Look it up.) Hardy har har.
Very good! Dint know them Amish had it in 'em!
ReplyDeleteI are not Christian, I are atheist, butt they is something ‘bout religious folk that intrigue I. It fun to watch them people sing that song, even though they be totally igorant for being religious. An ain’t that what life about? Fun an igornance? Keep up them good work, Dock.
ReplyDeleteHey Bizzy, you are too easy to spot :-)
ReplyDeleteVery astute comment, Jerry! Love having you in the fold!
ReplyDeleteWh-what do you mean too easy to spot? Wh-why would I do something like that?
ReplyDeleteWe were talking about doctrines of demons in Sunday School class yesterday, evolution being one of them, and for some strange reason, Jerry Coyne's name came to mind. Lol!
ReplyDeleteWell Bizzy, in my book all doctrines and dogma are of demons. They are simply ways of one group of folks telling others what to think and how to behave. :-)
ReplyDeleteFrom the Real Jerry Coyne - "But somebody has to point out that I DID NOT MAKE THAT FIRST COMMENT!" Since Jerry's IQ is higher than anyone who has ever visited this blog, that seemed obvious!! :-)
ReplyDeleteDidn't mean to insult Jerry. Had no idea he read your blog. So what IQ range is he in? upper one percent? Upper five percent? Or whatever?
ReplyDelete"...where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise." Thomas Grey
ReplyDeleteS/B 'tis.
ReplyDeleteWow! Sounds like Jerry might be the smartest person to ever spend eternity separated from God! If he were that smart, he would believe in the Bible as the unerring word of God. If it is true, he experiences a glorious eternity. If the Bible is not true, nothing is lost. However, if he chooses not to believe, and the Bible is true, then all is lost for poor Jerry. Also, if he were that smart, he would be familiar with probability theory, entropy, and the vast complexity of DNA, and realize evolution just doesn't add up.
ReplyDeleteTo be clear BB, Professor Coyne does not read this blog!! I thought your attempt at humor might bring a smile to his face. And since he holds that he has not yet seen any evidence for the god of the bible or any other god for that matter or for an eternity beyond life as we know it, I'm sure he has no interest in "adding" some things up for you :-)
ReplyDeleteI have never seen any evidence of a so-called Jerry Coyne, therefore I do not believe he exists. Nothing you can say, do, or present will convince me otherwise. Lol!
ReplyDeleteBB - I can send you a picture :-)
ReplyDeleteDon't mean nuthin'. Ever heard of Photoshop?
ReplyDeleteNothing exists!!!
ReplyDeleteAm thinking there must be a school of thought that does believe that "nothing exists," but no name comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteBB - I found this: "In the second century BCE Nagarjuna proved that nothing really exists and nothing ever really happens. This is the claim of Middle Way Buddhism and phrased in one way or another is the claim of the Perennial philosophy."
ReplyDeleteThanks for the information! By the way, did you know your buddy, Jerry, believes there is no such thing as free will? People are not responsible for their own lives because they have no choice. They are victims of circumstances, thus if they are jobless, homeless, out-of-wedlock mom, etc., they had no choice in the matter. You know what that makes Jerry? An effing crackpot, i.e. a liberal. Lol! So research and publish and blog away, Jerry. I think you're totally full of shit!
ReplyDeleteClicked the wrong box. S/B Bizzy Brain above, not anonymous.
ReplyDeleteBB is right, Doc. I came to believe in the idea of determinism (no free will) after reading a paper by Anthony Cashmore on determinism and the criminal justice system. He states that recognizing there is no free will makes one more empathetic and less judgmental: "A lot of politics—particularly Republican politics—is based on the supposition that people are responsible for their own lives. So, for example, people who are on welfare, or homeless people, are treated as if they could have done otherwise. They could have gotten a job, they could have gotten married and had a father for their kids. But they couldn't, because they're victims of circumstance."
ReplyDeleteThings busy - I'm pretty sure that Professor Coyne, or anyone for that matter, does not want their name to be surreptitiously and unscrupulously used by another person. So I'll just say give it up.
ReplyDeleteSecond - my opinion is that Coyne and his no-free-will cohort are all wet :-) I no longer read his posts on free will because I don't accept the premise, which as I understand it, is simply that when you make a decision, it is based on everything that has happened in your life up to that point, and thus you could not have made any other decision. To me that is trivial and simply a matter of semantics. Of course your decisions are based on everything previous, but I think that you can think about all of that and make a decision, and then change your mind, and change it again....and so on. I don't accept the Calvinist idea of pre-destination, and I don't accept the secular equivalent of molecular predestination. Also, for me, perception is often reality, and I have the perception of free will, and thus accept that I have it.
Thanks for the interesting and clarifying explanation of free will. I don't think scientists have explained yet how molecules can think. In other words, no one can understand consciousness from the standpoint of chemistry and physics. Perfessor Coyne has not convinced me that evolution is true, but if he were to make a case for devolution, I could understand that. He is a perfect example. He has devolved to the point his human parts are missing and his brain is warped, yet he thrives. Lol!
ReplyDeleteBTW, the last "Jerry Coyne" comment was a direct quote from him in an article I read, thus his words and ideas were not distorted. The only altered part was the first sentence, "BB is right, Doc." The rest came out of Jerry's mouth verbatim.
ReplyDeleteBB 🤦♂️😊
ReplyDeleteIt is impossible for me to believe that reality consists only of atoms and molecules, and that they can arrange themselves in such a way that one assemblage of molecules can hate or love or kill or save a different assemblage of molecules. Give me a break. I believe we are spiritual beings in a physical body and that one day our physical bodies will die and decay, but the spirit will live on, or not, depending on what denomination you belong to. Lol!
ReplyDeleteWell Bizzy, you are certainly "free" to believe anything you want 😊 However, physical reality is indeed only made up of observable particles, from subatomic particles to the entirety of the universe. This of course does not rule out the possibility of a spiritual world, but if it indeed exists, there needs to be more evidence that simply what you [or your denomination] believe. 😁 What is your rationale for believing in a spiritual world?
ReplyDeleteHave not come up with my favorite rationale yet, but in the meantime you can google "evidence for a spiritual world" and come up with a ton of references. I will probably lean toward the idea that molecules have not been shown to be able to think, and certain irrefutable facts presented in the Bible. Or, leaving the Bible out of it, there is much personal testimony and evidence for the paranormal, which is a spiritual dimension.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. My current take on the "paranormal" is that it really is normal, but as yet without any clear explanation. E.g. ESP - having had several such experiences, I think that there is something real there, but as yet it is not understood or clearly demonstrated.
ReplyDeleteAm itching to get into the conversation, but need to do more thinking.
ReplyDeleteI'll drink to that!
ReplyDeleteMe too!
ReplyDeleteWell, Theorus, I suppose you think you're very clever and funny with that name of yours, which is a takeoff on Pthirus pubis. (Look it up.) Hardy har har.
ReplyDeleteWell, hope that device works out for you Dickie!
ReplyDeleteThose ads keep showing up in my spam folder, but I never needed that stuff.
ReplyDelete